It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Bastin Frres Burlet I have not fired it. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Thanks Brandon. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Arnold Mathias The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as JavaScript is disabled. Bertrand Antoine Buy Belgium Shotguns For Sale At Auction | Invaluable to share our findings by this means of communication. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Comblain Serial Numbers. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Baron Emile John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Misc. 4 0 obj Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum The blue is rough but the action works. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Serial Numbers. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Baker, David J. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Bodson TH. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Your help is appreciated. Can you add any details? The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Belgian Arms cie Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. After years of looking at and trying Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. IMPORTANT NOTE! for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. This will be an on going The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Bazin F.J. JavaScript is disabled. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. These might cursive as well. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. As I've said, I'm not an expert. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Boden is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Hi, Jeremy. Bauduin Charles Jun 21, 2012. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Bernard Victor & Cie Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Pictures would help! The Modern Shotgun. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum It is was built using a very thick All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. Any info will help. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Bury Jules. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. . Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . OldGuns Newsletter . GWO, good condition. Paypal, Order You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. the 20th century. Thanks again for the help! The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Sorry! 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. 1860-1870. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Cap Joseph Bettonville - Fontaine Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. There are a number of Email: [email protected]. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Marlin-Savage-Winchester I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Brancquaert Louis insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! carefully bound by threads. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". Bertrand Joseph I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Does it reach the touch hole? Consignment Sale Information. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. 254.541.2985 John Hille, [email protected]. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. determination. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd.
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old belgian gun makers